I agree with you... Religions want to privatize everything that is considered "good" and to brainwash people into thinking that humans are born "evil" and that all "goodness" comes from religion so they can justify their existence and promulgation in a very hypocritical way...
I agree completely, I think children should be raised being taught things we know to be true. Not a "knowing" of a truth like "I know there is a god because...", but actual facts: science, history, tangible evidence. This way they will grow up looking at things from a realistic and rational point of view, not a brainwashed narrow-minded mindset (I can say this from first hand experience). Teaching any religion or false doctrines to a child whose mind is a sponge and susceptible to all incoming information is abuse. Especially when its from parents, to paraphrase Silent Hill: In the eyes of a child, parents are god. They look for guidance and understanding from the source of everything form their point of view: mother and father. To teach them “facts” based upon nothing but “feelings” is wrong and irresponsible.
lol thank you very much, and I you. I must say it is refreshing to see logic and the gray matter being used... because more and more I see things becoming like Idiocracy and its hilarious yet pathetically scary o.O
I dunno if they're born an atheist though... I know I started thinking and really classifying myself as an atheist like, a year or two ago (I'm 17 now). Before then, I didn't care much, didn't think about it. Atheism is still a belief, keep that in mind. Babies don't tend to think about how life works. Instead, they like to poop themselves and cry. They just lack any belief in the matter. Babies have no idea about these concepts when they're born, so how could they be an atheist?
Hi Oskar, how every new-born child is an a-theist is because, by default, he/she is not a theist. theism is taught. simple as that. should you feel the need for elaboration plz lemme know
Yes, Atheism is a belief. So is everything that we know of. Even when someone says they don't believe in something(concept), what they are doing is believing in not believing in something. Knowing is not imagining. The point is... imagining (making things up in our mind) is not a belief(how much soever real it may seem to oneself). More importantly, to shove one's beliefs down others throats is immoral, hence not the right thing to do. You make an excellent point when you mention babies not having the tendency to think. WHICH IS EXACTLY why those who are grown up and have a rational mind to know better have the responsibility towards them in guiding them the right way, the reasonable way... instead of imparting them misinformation that they themselves don't KNOW but REGARD to be true. If someone categorizes dragons & fairies to be real then they are contradicting themselves and have failed to understand the crucial difference between reality & imagination. I'm sure you fully understand what I'm talking about! Cheers!
hmmm thought I'd replied back earlier.. sorry for the delay. my premise is... non-believers are also believers in the sense that they believe in not believing in something. if we dont know what we believe/dont believe in then that simply means we dont know. & It's OKAY to not know something. That's exactly why I find the question - "Are you a 'non-believer'?" wrong. Surely we've come across people with bad morality.. we dont believe in bad morality but we believe an idea called bad morality exists. We can't believe/not believe in something we are not yet aware of. [google SCHRODINGER'S CAT] believing AND not believing is an acceptance of a certain ideology... in other words, rejection is also a form of acceptance (accepting to reject). the stance we choose to take are different of course. fun stuff my apologies if I failed to get my point across. =]
The christians, of course, will rationalize that it is "all part of god's plan", down to five-year old african children who are born with aids, child soldiers, poverty, genital mutilation, ethnic cleansing, starvation, child molestation, slavery- all of it, part of his plan that everything will magically work out in the end.
No matter how bad it looks, no matter how irrational it is, the power of delusion is depressingly real.
Nice poster by the way, I've been looking for that quote.
Zeitgeist [Religion] The Greatest Story Ever Sold part 1 [link] part 2 [link] part 3 [link]
"A myth serves as an idea that, while widely believed, is false. And a deeper sense... in the religious sense, a myth serves as an orienting and mobilizing story for people. The focus is not on the story's relation to reality but on its function. A story cannot function unless it is believed to be true in the community or the nation. It is not a matter of debate that some people have the bad taste to raise the question of the truth of the sacred story. The keepers of the faith do not enter the debate with them.. they ignore them or denounce them as blasphemers."
hmm i like your concept but i feel as if your just judging christians. When i have a child, he/she will be brought up in a christian home however if he/she feels like she doesnt want to i wont force it on the child. If they even want to go into another religion or not its up to them. If they want baptized they can as long as they realise what it means. Christianity is about choice not force. :3 Parents should always be understanding towards children. I dont agree with parents to baptize there babies or force religion down peoples throats.
Thank you. It's just an amalgamation of somewhat random quotes and random comments I had encountered at that time on random websites... handpicked & designed to get the point across, of course!
I'm glad to hear your viewpoints on how you might want to raise your child and I respect the sense of freedom that you have. While it may seem from my previous comments/convos that I'm merely leaning towards only christianity, the above image doesn't hold back on the same notion of harmful indoctrination by any religion. Christianity is about choice, you say.. well, as much as I would like to agree to that, I don't think I can dismiss the fact that it (a particular religion) is taught to a young mind, WHEN they incapable of making decisions or even inclined to know (the truth) about it. Once you know something as a truth, would you be inclined to investigate further? or just carry on with your life being comfortable with what you know? I don't deny that it is uncomfortable to have your belief system shaken or even shattered to pieces. But that doesn't and wouldn't change the truth that always was/is/will be. At the very least it would change your perception of it. The problem is not/was never the beneficiary aspects of inner security or social bonding that an(any) organization has... we're naturally social creatures, of course. We make friends, form various clubs, etc.. 'coz we love to be with others! The problem is intolerance arising out of ignorance and its implications to others' lives. Saying MY organization is the only true one and the most powerful one that YOU MUST accept and follow.. or else. THAT is ridiculous and wrong. there is a very commonly used word for that... bullying. I FULLY support your disagreement on parents baptizing (read 'branding livestock with a hot/cold rod') I don't think a child has to be taught how to be humane towards his/her own self or anyone else. It is because we have morality innate in us. We learn constantly from the organic life and environment around us. To influence someone by fear is wrong. To influence someone by trickery of promises is wrong. <<This is the core of the subject matter.
This, I observe, is something about the 'rewarding for an act' or 'tit-for-tat' behavior. It works so elegantly that it can be used/abused by some so effortlessly and get away with their personal interest/gains. It's not just observed in human beings but in a lot of other species... [symbiosis, slavery, abuse & so forth] Anyway, thank you so much again for taking time to comment I appreciate it! If you feel like it, kindly read my latest journal entry. Have a pleasant weekend!
Oh my goodness! your so polite :hugs: I pretty much agree with everything you have said XD I use to be totally anti-christian, because i hated the way extremists acted, and they also give the group or organization a bad name because those are the ones who get noticed first. Children should be able to be whatever they want (as long as it doesnt break the law O-O) But also i find it with the bible, at a young age it taught me to be polite to others and well mannered and love your neighbour and dont use revenge and blahdee blah. So it did help me as a child and i wasnt even from a christian background. Im 19, chose to be christian and i get bullied by my family because they hate christians. I guess bullying comes in different and obsured ways. D: i just hope these children will be able to heal the pain.
But thank you so much for your wonderful comment you have a good weekend too! xx
How can you deny the existence of god and the supernatural.It's already a proven fact that Chuck Norris exists.I'll even explain the flood.You see the ocean got Chuck's clothes wet so he got pissed and roundhouse kicked the ocean.I'll even explain the big bang theory and creation.Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked back before anything else existed and it caused an explosion which eventually led to the creation of the universe!When you die whether you go to heaven or hell depends on what direction Chuck roundhouse kicks your soul.He hasn't stopped evil simply because it isn't worth his time.Brucifer obviously has no chance against him so he feels no need to bother with him.I hope this helps clear up some of the religious controversy.
yes.. I can totally relate to that what's even funnier is when they don't get the punchline[intent] and act as if everything HAS to have a literal meaning. as for those wanting to burn you on a steak, I'd say 'do unto yourself as you would do unto others' hey wait a min.. that would make a nice t-shirt print!
I see you've found the true meaning of my humor.The fact that you manage to grasp what few have even noticed tells me you're a rather intelligent man.Most people don't really understand me and that's why they're so uneasy about me.You seem well acquainted with people's pointless fear of the unknown.People seem to fail to utilize logic properly.They go about trying to understand things the wrong way.The one thing I truly have trouble understanding is why so many people seem incapable of using some of the most basic elements of their mind.I'm sure you've already easily discerned this but I do look down on people in general.Personally I'm strongly opposed to equality.As long as individuality exists equality can be no more than a delusion.Pretty words may make everyone feel better but it veils the truth in a shroud of fiction.Ignorance achieves nothing.I find your intelligence impressive and your sense of humor pleasant.
God wants us to learn to be like Him because we are His children, without the evil and bad we would never truly experience joy and never grow strong and learn to have faith that He will keep us as long as we do our share alot more i want to say but gtg just wanted to share
Thanks for taking time to comment, Karol! I appreciate it.
When you say 'god' what do you mean exactly? a being? supernatural & the creator of all things that exist in this universe? or is it a concept? All human beings do have a tendency to believe in the supernatural for many reasons - superstition is one of them. Clearly, a sane person will never believe that there was a talking snake or 'god' asked for a human sacrifice to prove to a person that 'He' is 'god'... unless he/she wants to believe in such things to amuse themselves. Sure I could say I believe in fire-breathing dragons! I art & fantasy creatures & folklore and what have you! but I would only mean it in an abstract imaginative way.. something to imagine for a while and bemused with it for the entertainment it provides me with. I simply cannot say fire-breathing dragons exist in reality with utmost seriousness.
By the way you capitalize 'He/His', I suppose you have been told you are a 'christian/catholic'. Please, my friend, before you try to defend a irrational blind belief, try to question why someone telling you something is right.. seek its authenticity for YOURSELF. If you believe Jesus was son of god, born of a virgin on december 25th, had 12 disciples, performed miracles, healed sick, died & came back to life after 3 days... if you believe in all the things I just mentioned, you'll be amazed by the fact that that story has been told & retold for centuries by people. I only ask of you to not believe in something 'just because' someone says it IS the truth. Believe in something ONLY if you truly understand and know it. the following link will give you a better understanding about the subject. [link] but don't stop at that.. I encourage you to research from all the other sources you can find.
"without evil and bad we would never truly experience joy and never know to grow and learn to have faith" - I suppose you mean we cannot give value & know the worth of something 'good' UNLESS we experience 'bad'. I do not think THAT is a reason for knowing what is good. joy is a state of mind, us humans experience a myriad of such emotions. To put it in a simpler way, one does not have to suffer in order to know how it would feel like not to suffer. not to suffer is the 'default' position. One does not have to bang his/her head into a wall to know it might cause pain in order to know what it feels like not having pain. It is but cause & effect. actions beget consequences and consequences may give rise to actions. Its perpetuity is irrefutable and inevitable. That's the nature of things in reality as we know it.
Now, let me make a distinction about what is the definition of 'faith' & 'belief' using a simple example. Faith is a thought, an imagination.. if you will. Belief is also a thought but a rational & logical one. It is to say that, for e.g., my car will still be there at the parking lot when I go there. when I am way, I do not & cannot KNOW in the present state of reality that it is absolutely true. In other words, I take it for granted & HOPE that it will be there. Why would I do that? I do that because I CAN KNOW FOR SURE [justifiable] just by going there & finding it parked. I have done it lots of times before and every single time it has been proven that it stays there. Hence, I can KNOW by logical reasoning that it will be there. Now one might argue that surely my car can be stolen.. then what?
perhaps 'god' or 'devil' or 'flying spaghetti monster' makes it suddenly disappear into thin air! does my 'faith' that my car will be there is unreal & merely a delusion? The obvious answer to that is no because someone stealing my car is another 'cause & effect' happening and will not disprove my 'belief'[logical reasoning] that my car must be in the parking lot.
Man has always been a pattern seeking animal. We want to make sense of everything - it is natural to do so.. it is but innate to us all. It must have been mind-boggling for a cave man as to why did the sun disappear during what we now know as a 'solar eclipse'. So he thinks.. hmmm, there's GOT TO BE someone doing it. For many centuries people have had thought of the Earth being flat.. why wouldn't they? They had not seen the planet from outer space, they did not know about planets revolving around the sun either. They have no KNOWLEDGE/UNDERSTANDING of it. Even today, when we gaze up in the sky from ground level, it seems but only logical, doesn't it? sun rising from the east.. setting in the west. so one would say aha! of course the Sun revolves around Earth... Also, consider the germ theory. For so many years people all around the world died of diseases caused by pathogens.. organisms that are more powerful than human beings. For someone who doesn't know that germs exist [understandably so, because obviously we cannot see it by the naked eye] it seems astounding & unthinkable.. impossible! Again, since they can't make sense of it they say oh! 'god' must have done it. They become so helpless that they lead themselves to think that it is because of something they might have done! A 'sin', per se.
Now, understand where we are today in terms of knowledge. It is extremely crucial to distinguish 'blind faith' from 'reason'. Now that we KNOW what germs [bacteria/virus etc.] are, should we disregard that KNOWLEDGE and act as if we don't know what is actually happening?
What makes more sense to you? An invisible fantastic supernatural being in the sky causing a human disease OR a [albeit microscopically] visible bacteria/virus that is doing it. or perhaps that the 'god' we knew of is in fact a bacteria/virus?! Fear of the unknown does not account a justification for being paranoid & delirious. For those who want to believe in supernatural, my friend, they will always find a reason to do so. That does not prove that their belief holds any authenticity. On the contrary rather. One who wants to believe will try his/her best to make sense to himself/herself by making the mistake of thinking - oh wait! I know! 'god' made bacteria/virus etc.. so there! to a rational mind, it is ignoring known facts and wanting to mold their belief system accordingly. Its being fake when you can get real. Ask yourself, do you really believe in gravity? if so, why? what lead you to believe that? Can it be proved? do you really believe in technology? why? do you really believe in this universe and all the physical laws that govern it? why? do you really believe that we need to fear a supernatural being casting us into eternal hell-fire at all.. in order to be moral? Again.. You don't HAVE to believe me/anyone or anything that I/they have said. Think for yourself. Know for yourself. Reason for yourself. Be yourself.
This is why education eradicates ignorance and this is how ignorance is 'curable'. Learning about history, geography, science etc. gives us understanding and wisdom. Taking it for granted is being unintelligent & ungrateful. For instance, one cannot take medicines & say its not the medicines that is curing him/her but it is 'god'. I understand about you wanting to say more but not finding time.. same is the case with me Afterall, we all have but one life to live & do the things we must, yea? Take your time in replying me, if you want to. I will try to respond as soon as I can! Cheers!
I agree. most people think if there is no religion, there is an instant gap that must be filled with something else. Some even call atheism a religion in itself... which just exemplifies the fact how much they think they need some kind of "religious" motivation or "supernatural" concept to be moral. Religion should never be given that credit as to why we are good to others. Reason.. yes.
Nor is Atheism something to be preached. If people are Christians, Buddhists, or Muslims, who are you to judge? If there really is no god, then why does it matter what people believe? A little bit of a power trip maybe? Live, and let live.
Thanks for your comment! Did you find this preachy? No one is judging here. I'm merely stating the facts. Nobody has the right to call/label a child "christian" or "muslim" & create barriers between humanity when clearly every single person is born a non-believer.
Why does it matter? yes. THAT is a brilliant question. It matters because some people around the globe are mutilating their children in the name of god [circumcision]. It matters because some people are making decisions for others politically, economically based on religious dogma. It matters because some religious fanatics kill others in the name of god. It matters because some people kill their children if they stop believing in their god.
Indeed, but in a culture shaped around religion, I think it is in the best interest of the children to be deemed a certain religion before they can choose for themselves SO that they can be saved from being beaten or killed that they do not believe. Children grow up and start making decisions for themselves and are definitely not stuck in a religion because it was chosen for them.
Circumcision is common outside of religion though, and I think is more of a hygienic thing now since many athiests/agnostics are also circumsized.
And I agree that some political decisions based on religion really aren't ethical, (gay rights) but that is ignorance which I'm sure will be weeded out of society at least in the US and Europe if it still exists there with the death of the current generation.
And to say that religion is ignorance may possibly be the the most arrogant statement I've ever heard. And if religious people are happy in their "ignorance," who's to say it needs to be cured?
Yes, I'm quite aware of the cultural influence that religion has on human society.
"best interest of the children to be deemed a certain religion..." - if there is no religion would we need to save them from being beaten or killed? Children do obviously grow up but because of the constant indoctrination they have had from their parents or whoever, most of them do not leave that belief system, however faulty they might find it.. however illogical & irrational they might find it. we should ask ourselves.. Is it really what we want to teach our children.. that they should act/behave a certain way or else they will be damned to eternal fire? Now THAT we can call a power trip.
Thank you for sharing a unanimous thought about ethical political decisions. I certainly hope people understand the extent of the decisions they are making on behalf of others.
oh, that's great! anyone can live & believe something on blind faith.. although I fail to understand why someone who has the mental capacity to make rational decisions would do that. I certainly do not think its my business to tell them what makes them happy and what does not. They can have all the imaginary friends they want to cheer them up. Just do not let it affect others' lives. I repeat if I wasn't clear enough before.. I said ignorance is curable, not religion. Cheers!
Its kinda funny how I was reminded to go check DA's TOS before submitting this. Guess that's how powerful the "god" meme is just because it is "religion" or "god" doesn't mean it cannot be questioned. I've been religious for 2 decades myself and I'm proud I grew out of it for good. I'm glad you realize & appreciate the notion of reason and being rational than being deluded by "imaginary friends". lol
question is.. now that you (any reading this) know, what are you going to do about it? Cheers!
Absolutely, the question must follow, how does one practically apply knowledge gained through such means. Without the ability to see benifits in knowledge, why does one even seek the truth? Is the truth itself it's own end, to be gained by other means, or is the base element more sinister, or benign, in nature? That is what we must ask ourselves.
Hey Zephyter0! It's been quite a while since you commented on my page [Atheistbydefault] but I think I have some information that you might find interesting about what you were on about... "without the ability to see benefits in knowledge, why does one even seek the truth?" I was watching a talk by Daniel Dennett (about competence without comprehension) on youtube, the other day, when I remembered your comment. Dan, which I'm fairly sure you must've heard of by now, is an American philosopher, writer and cognitive scientist whose research centers on the philosophy of mind, philosophy of science and philosophy of biology, particularly as those fields relate to evolutionary biology and cognitive science. I invite you to take a look @ the link below and if you like, feel free to reply. Cheers! [link]
I myself was reading that comment the other day. I'm quite pleased with how I worded it, especially because in recent days I've been attempting to perfect my wordplay skills. You remembering it means a lot to me as well, thank you. I will Be sure to take a look at your link, friend.
Great points, my friend. Worth pondering indeed. I suppose one seeks the truth to decide.. their actions, their interactions with one's self and with others. Finding the truth about something is not half as hard as handling it, I feel. Sure one can choose to ignore it and act/pretend that he/she never came across it and carry on with their lives.. but that indeed is what ignorance is.
Surely, everybody has the right to believe what they want to believe. BUT, the moment it begins to affect someone else in a harmful way it's no longer "personal". Thank you for honestly expressing your views.